Keep hot water tanks separate, or run parallel?

Ok, I have 2 hot water tanks. 1-40 gallon supplies the in-law addition, and the other 40 gallon supplies our side of the house. Currently, they run separately, no cross feeding. Should I keep them separate, or run them parallel(or whatever it's called when 2 tanks run the same lines).
my thoughts are, 2 running parallel will insure we don't run out of hot water(we have 3 girls plus my wife takes longgg showers :-/ It's only my mom on the in-law side(she has her own full bath, kitchen and laundry), so she would never need 40 gallons. If I don't run them parallel, I will need to increase ours to at least 75 gallon I think??

Also, if running parallel, will we have issues if there are a couple of hot water usages going on?

Do I make sense? :)


I would connect them in series, that is, the hot water out of the first one feeds into the second which in turn feeds all household demand.
One advantage is that if demand does not call for the total 80 gallon capacity, the thermostat on the first WH can be turned down or off to save energy costs.
Your water flow rate shouldn't be less than it is now as you remain constrained by the same (3/4"?) incoming cold water supply line.
Set the first water heater slightly above your required output temperature and the second water heater at the required output temp.
Example; Set the first water heater at 135 and the second one at 125.

In this configuration the water entering the second water heater is already above the demand temperature therefore the second water heater doesn't fire but just acts as a storage vessel. This will give you the full 40gal in the second water heater + the first hour rating of the first water heater which would typically be about 60gal/hr and in the event that the demand is still greater than what the first water heater can produce, as the water entering the second water heater drops below the demand temp, the second water heater will fire thus you have both units firing at the same time and they will produce a nearly limitless supply.

Not quite limitless however. Under an actual test at my cousins house in mid winter with incoming cold water at 42degF we set 3 showers to run at 105degF and timed the water-not quite limitless, we only got 74 minutes continuous run before the shower temps began to fall off so I went back to my drawing board and came up with a slight modification that grossly improves on that.

clean hard-water scale with salt water?

We've had hard well water for about a year before installing a softener. The calcium build-up has been very difficult to clean off, particularly in the master bath which features a lot of black marble -- pretty much a worst-case scenario.
I've tried the usual stuff, CLR and so on, without all that much luck.

I was wondering whether briny salt water might clean it, since the salt seems to pull the calcium off the softener's resin pellets (if I understand the process correctly). It seems to me a $4.50 bag of softener salt ought to create a pretty generous quantity of salt water.


Softeners work by ion exchange
The only thing you will end up with on your surfaces by cleaning with salt water is chorides and now sodium too.

Ever see what salt water spray does to windows on a cruise ship?

Keep cleaning and try limeaway in the gel form.

Vinegar and water works if the deposits are not too well established onto the surface.
If you know anyone that has an RO use that water. RO water has been filtered of most all contaminants and it loves to take on anything it can dissolve.

Kohler flushing technolgy changed?

I looked up the ratings of how much a toilet can flush, to help me decide which toilet to buy. A salesman at Fergusons, told me that these ratings were made before Kohler changed thier flushing system on the models I was considering. I lked the memoirs and devonshire. The memoirs 1 piece had a very high rating (800) but, the 2 piece very low (250). He said that it now comes with a class 5 system and that the ratings were done before they changed the system. The price difference is BIG. I would love to order the 2 piece and save over $300 on each toilet. Do you think that this is true?


Toilet mfg's do not price their toilets according to how well they flush. They attempt to produce the best flushing product possible. The price of a one piece is considerably more due to some mfg costs & the mfg & wholesaler will make a better margin on the product in comparison to the profit made on a basic 2 piece "commodity" toilet. Having sold plumbing fixtures for 15 years for one of the top 3 mfg's I can say that some of the best proforming products available are some of the least expensive. Buy the product that appeals to you & is within in your budget. The pressure assited product that is available is probably one of the "flushing/preforming" products available. BUT it certainly has other issues including noise parts pricing etc. Mfg's design collection suites where the lav, tub, toilet all have similar lines & compliment one another. these products usually have a higher price compared to a basic white toile t. The basic toilet (white rnd rim)product the price is dictated by market conditions & competition. As far as technology changing the mfg's are constantly working on better preforming products. Having said this if a better product is developed it is not always rushed to market. the cost associated with producing the product (molds)getting the wholesalers/retailers to embrace & whse it. & the marketing decisions, does this replace a current model. If a new part number is needed the hugh task of getting all the states & cities to list the product as "approved"

Painted drains/strainers?

Our new house is an interesting amalgam of high end finishes and some really cheap, shoddy work. With that in mind, here's our latest (& thankfully pretty small) issue. We recently found that the drains & strainers in our copper sinks are not copper. They're painted, and the paint has begun to peel off.
How big a deal is it to replace these drains & strainers? There's a large double farmhouse sink, a veg. sink and a bar sink, all undermounted beneath granite counters. I've priced replacements online, but can anyone give me an idea of a reasonable labor cost? Dh has installed new faucets and shower heads, so would you think this is something he could do if the builder fails to take care of the problem?


Should be an easy DIY job, but for a new house I'd tell the builder to get it done at his expense and then look for other shortcuts that may have been taken elsewhere.

Copper sinks - insulation?

We have hammered copper sinks (twin basin main sink + a veg/prep sink) in the kitchen and butler's pantry. The little ones are fine (probably because they don't get much use) but the main sink is very noisy. I tried a sink mat (pebble textured) but stuff got caught in it and it was hard to clean. I haven't found a sink rack/grid for copper sinks like the one I used to have in a previous home's stainless sink. Is there such a thing? Also, I'm wondering if it's feasible to insulate beneath the sink, and if so - how? Would spray foam adhere to the underside of the copper sink and help reduce the clanging sounds when dishes and pots are washed? Are there any other ways to reduce the noise?


You can purchase temperature/sound insulating spray at an auto parts store. It is black, dries nicely, and several coats should be used (10?) , the more the better. However, you cannot have the sink installed when you use it. Alternately, you could use the auto insulation that is about 1/8" thick and sticky with an aluminum backing. You could probably install it with the sink in place.

Sewer Pump Maintenance

I have a two pump setup for pumping sewage up the to street. I've burned out a few pumps recently. My plumber seems to think it is from the accumulation of grease (lumpy white stuff) on the tank sides and floats.
Does anyone else have this issue, and how to do handle it?


Doubt it
Usually pumps burn out prematurely because:
They are too small and are overworked
They are too big and dont stay on long enough
Pump level control isn't set for best run times
Tank is too small
Poor electric feeds, undersized or spikes from storms

bar faucet in place of lavatory faucet

I bought sinks that are somewhat too big. I will have to use a faucet and put it to the side. I am looking at single mounts thats finished at the bottom. Can I use a bar faucet that has hot and cold for my sinks? Do I need a special valve or do these usually come with the faucet. If anyone has a suggestion on how to do this at a reasonable price let me know.


This question cannot be answered with the information at hand.
By code standard a lavatory bowl has an 1-1/4" drain opening and is rated at 1DFU(Drainage Fixture Unit). In turn a lavatory faucet is rated for a max flow of .5gpm and a water supply load of 1FU(Fixture Unit).

All other sinks are required to have an 1-1/2" drain opening which is rated at 3DFU's and the other sink faucets may range from 2.5gpm to 4gpm which is either a 2 or 3FU supply load.

In your post you mentioned that your bought "sinks" in the plural so I am guessing that you are intending to install two sinks in your master bath.

If you are under the International Residential Code your bathroom was most likely roughed in with 1-1/2" drain pipe for the two sinks, however 1-1/2" pipe is limited to 3DFU's but installing those sinks will increase the load from 2DFU's to 6DFU's and it would require increasing the line in the wall from 1-1/2" to 2" and depending upon how critically sized your drainage system is, it could require changing the size of your house main drain & house sewer from 3" to 4".

The bottom line, No one on the forum can provide your answer. You need to discuss it with both your plumber and your inspector.

Isn't there a better way to hookup water filter?

I'm having my kitchen remodeled and I want to add a generic two stage water filter under the sink and one of those separate little faucets. I've found plenty of places to get the parts and cheap generic filter cartridges, but every single explanation uses PLASTIC tubing, compression fittings and saddle taps! Isn't that just asking for a potential leak?!? I did a thorough search here and on the Internet. I figured surely there would be some instructions on how to do a better job hooking up a filter (like I've read about using copper, rather than plastic tubing to hook up the icemaker)--but time after time they use plastic tubing! Even "This Old House" used plastic and a compression fitting. I'm not planning to do the hookup, I'm planning to let the plumber do it who will install the faucets, etc. I just want to buy everything in advance (and know how it should be done) so there will be no excuse not to do it right. Can someone please tell me how to do a "permanent", "long lasting", "easy to change filter" install?


The plastic tubing is the best way to install. This ensures ease of install and allows you to pull the filter housing to make it easier to replace filter cartridges(which should be replaced every 6 months), without disconnecting any plumbing. The fittings are very reliable.

Tankless or Conventional Water Heater

We are building in the North Houston, Tx area. We will have well water and are now trying to decide whether to go with convential water heaters (with hot water recirculating system) or tankless water heaters.
What are your experiences and what do you suggest? We've heard that tankless water heaters aren't advised for use when you have well water (problems with sediment and minerals).


go tankless with a filter and clean the tankless out every 6 month go takagi

Frost Proof Sill Cock

My home is about 35 Years old and has the original frost proof sill cock mounted on the backside of the house. I has given excellent service until this summer when it started to drip when the knob was turned to the off position.
I unscrewed the nut that holds the handle, rod on which the rubber washer is screwed onto the end. The washer is shot and has to be replaced.
I am trying to find a name on this sill cock to see if I can find a repair kit for it. The only thing close to a name is the letter,"T", that is on the housing of the mounting flange that the two screws go throuh the slots that hold it to the house siding. The housing is of all brass construction and it seems of quality contruction and materials.
The tube that extends into the house is about 12" to 14" long and the end screws into the copper tubing fitting inside the house. The other end of the tube that mounts to the outside siding of the house vial two mounting screws and a sloted mouting base. This has a nut that when turned out seperates the rod,(12"to 14")long also, which has the rubber washer attached to the end of the rod by a brass screw. The tube and rod assembly has a red fiber washer where the tube and rod assembly is seperated by a nut that is part of the rod assembly. It has a red metal handle that has several holes in it.
If someone out there can give me some help in determinging the manufacture of this sill cock and where I can obtain a repair kit for it that would be great. It only needs the rubber washer at the end of thr rod and the red fiber washer/gasket where the sill cock splits into two pieces,(the tube assembly and the rod assembly).


There re two seals that can cause dripping.
The actual valve seal is at the far end of the rod from the handle.
If this seal fails the valve will not close completely and drip when the valve is closed.

The second seal is the valve packing at the handle end.
If this seal fails the valve will drip from the stem (under the handle) when it is open and there is ANY back pressure from the outlet.

Both seals are actually pretty standard and should be available from a good plumbing section at a hardware store or even a big box store.

how much space needed below bath floor for a toilet to drain?

We are instaling a bath in our old attached garage ( now laundry/bath room) I need to know how high we need to make the floor so the toilet will flush and drain to the sewer? We will be going through the foundation to connect to the sewer line.
Garage floor is now about 2 ft below home floor. But sewer line is below that.


Begin by determining the exact location and elevation of the top of the existing pipe at the exact point of tie in.
Determine the exact location of the new pipe run and compute the actual length of the pipe.

PIPE DROP= 1/4 per foot for each foot of pipe run. (.25" x pipe length)

fitting allowance= Allow an additional 6" for the fitting allowance of the 3" closet bend on the upstream end of the pipe.

Add the pipe drop and the fitting allowance, then beginning on the top of the existing pipe add pipe drop and the fitting allowance.

That would be the absolute minimum elevation of the finished floor.

New house- old iron problem

I am closing on a house in NY and wanted help on how to take care of an iron problem. it is everywhere. The toilets and tube are stained because the old owner didn't use any filter.
Sorry, if this is an old topic but I wanted to get soem advice before spending big bucks ona an iron filter. I am not sure the best way to go. I lived in city water before and used a brita for drinking. But I know this will be different.

I can do some basic plumbing..chaged a toilet and installed a water heater.


Contact a local professional and get some basic tests done. Find all the problems before a solution can be suggested.
You may have different types of iron. Consider quality equipment over the cheap and easy. How long are you going to stay there? 10 or more years?

Grundfos impeller source

Anyone know where I can get an impeller for a Grundfos Comfort Recirc Pump (UP10-16BU/ATLC)?
Their website doesn't really provide good information on getting parts.


Check their website for a dealer near you, then call the dealer.

Pre-rinse faucet on a utility sink?

Does anyone have any experience with a pre-rinse faucet on a utility sink? In case you don't recognize the name, a pre-rinse faucet has a long, flexible, suspended spray nozzle, so it would be good for rinsing off rags and mops, but maybe it would be a pain for filling buckets, cleaning brushes and other utility sink sort of activities?


We had one in a bakery for rinsing off sheet pans after washing, there is not enough flow to rinse off rags or mops or to fill buckets in a decent amount of time. I'm talking as the boss here, an employee will stand there for 10 minutes to fill a bucket and think nothing of it.

toto drake tank installation

I just installed a Drake and tank is wobbly since it filled with water. Can anyone tell me when they installed theirs, did they put a metal washer and nut on the outside of the tank, placed it on the bowl, and then place another metal washer and plastic nut. The instructions say to put a metal nut inbetween the tank and bowl. This doesn't seem to make sense. Is this why the tank is rocking?


The nut in between should be tightened up against the underside of the tank. That insures the bolts are tight and the gasket will not leak. When properly installed it cannot effect how the tank sits on the bowl.

Recommend gentle toilet fill valve?

My new toilet has a terrible fill valve. It shuts off so suddenly that water hammer can hardly be avoided. I'm going to put a hammer arrester on the line, but on top of that, can anyone suggest a good brand / model fill valve that is known for having a gentle shut-off? The one that came with the toilet may be a Fluidmaster (sp?). I have a replacement in a box called Korky, which is already in one other toilet and isn't very much better.
I miss the old days of toilets that slowly turned off. So do my pipes. I've already tried turning down the in-line shutoff valve.


I've used many, many of the Fluidmasters and never seen this problem. I wonder how high your water pressure could be. I've used them with pressure up to 80 lb. and never had that problem. Makes me wonder if there are loose pipes leading to the toilet so that any little sudden change would cause them to knock.

Point of Use Electric On-demand

Our half bath is on the other side of the house from where the water heaters will be. We are considering installing a point-of-use on-demand water heater for the faucet. Lowes has one for around $220 (Bosch, I think). A quick look on-line shows that they will cost $150-$500, with the main option being 120 vs 240 volt. We are in South Mississippi, so think that the 120 volt would be appropriate for our needs. (This is a new build.)
Any advice regarding brands that are good/bad, as well as any experience with these water heaters is greatly appreciated.


The post states that the point of installation is a 1/2 bath so I think we can rule out the possibility of a soaker or whirlpool tub being present.
Installing a recirculation system would certainly be one method of insuring nearly instant on hot water at a remote location however it must be remembered that this would involve running not only a hot & cold water line, it would also require running a return line and installing a recirculating pump. In addition, a half-bath or the laundry are principally infrequent, low volume demands which may go unused for days at a time.

This is the point where the tankless technology really comes into its own. First of all, if we install a small "point of use" tankless water heater we need not install a hot water line or a return line, therefore we have initially reduced the material & labor cost of the piping to 1/3 and in the case of a copper pipe distribution system, that saving alone could be considerable.

During initial construction the cost of a small point of use tankless water heater is very comparable to the cost of a recirc pump so we have an either or cost here.

Since there is now no hot water standing in a hot water line or a return line, we have totally eliminated "standby energy loss" from pipe radiation thus in this application there is a slight energy advantage to the tankless.

If one is designing for both peak energy efficiency and maximum convenience it is often advantageous to design a Hybrid system where we have a conventional tank type water heater to meet the peak demands of bath & shower while we design smaller point of use units for the low volume loads such as the kitchen, half-bath and laundry.

When making the choice between 120 or 240volts it is best to select the 240v units because they will maintain a better balance on your house electrical system.

Best Tankless Water Heater

I'm considering installing a tankless water heater - in Hampton VA - House is 2BR 2BA - gas avail. potentially installed in a crawl space. What is the best brand and model for my application (or personal favorite)? What are Pros and Cons of the tankless system?


The operating saving on a gas tankless is 35% over a standard gas water heater. This is supported by DOE Energy Factors, it isn't manufacturer's claims.
The other pluses are continuous hot water, small size and sidewall venting.

There is a federal tax credit as well as many local utility incentives.

The negatives are a higher installed cost than many standard gas water heaters (not all) and a slight additional delay in getting hot water.

You need to be aware of proper sizing. You also need to be aware of the Energy Factor on the unit ( I noticed that some of the Bosch units (1600P)have an energy factor similar to a standard tank heater...yikes!) While the Bosch 1600PS had a lot of complaints from users because of the unique ignition system. Because of this, I am not a fan of Bosch units.

You also need to be aware of the special venting requirements.

My recommendations are the Rheem/Rudd/Paloma (all the same) units. They are a good product at a reasonable price.

Copper Branching / Basement Bathroom

I am currently in the process of finishing my basement and need to run supply lines (1 hot & 1 cold) to the new bathroom down there (toilet, sink, and shower). Details:
House is almost 2 years old
Waste plumbing was already roughed in
1" copper main supply
¾" copper hot & cold after water heater

I would assume that I need to branch off the ¾" copper for both hot and cold, but my question is what size pipe I should use for the branch. Can I immediately reduce down to ½" with ½" branches from that to supply the toilet, sink, and shower? Or, do I need to start out with a ¾" branch with ½" branches off of that? I’ve read that you’re not supposed to have more than two fixtures on the same ½" branch, but I didn’t know how much that applied when dealing with one room where, more than likely, not more than one fixture would be in use at any given time.

More details (approximate distances):

Toilet – 5’ from the supply branch
Sink – 10’ from the supply branch (5’ from toilet)
Shower – 15’ from the supply branch (5’ from sink)

I wish I would have taken more pictures of the rest of the house before the drywall went up so I could see how the other bathrooms are plumbed.


1/2" branch off the 3/4" line will be fine

Plugged Toilet or broken pipe?

We are on a septic system. Shortly after Thanksgiving and a house full of people, coupled with cold weather, our toilet plugged. Using a plunger did nothing but move the water. Sink drains in the kitchen were also plugged. If left over night, the toilet and drains would drain and it would flush about once or twice then plug again. We had the septic tank pumped out and it worked for about three weeks, then it started again. DH took the lid off the septic tank, ran water and nothing seemed to go into the tank, at least while he was watching. Any ideas? We have owned this place three years, no major digging or anything that would break a sewer line.


Based upon the information supplied in the post you have a partial clog in the house main drain or the sewer line from the house to the septic tank. The solution would be to have the line cleaned with a power auger.

'No Overflow' Sink Draining Slowly

My new bathroom sink doesn't have an overflow. This required a different drain (no holes at the top). The sink drains slower than other sinks in the house. I'm really not pleased with the installation and before the plumbers come back to finish the job, was wondering if it's got anything to do with the fact that there is no overflow and is that just common with those type set ups or is something the plumbers can fix?


An overflow has nothing to do with the rate of flow.

Redoing bathroom in Polybutylene house

I have a house built in 1993 with PB with copper fittings. It has never had a plumbing problem that I have known of - I have owned the house for 2.5 years.
I have a crawlspace that is really 10 feet tall so it is more like working in an unfinished basement. I am 1/2 way through a bathroom remodel that doesn't require much plumbing work. The sinks remained at the same place and the tub is not changing at all. The shower is my next step and I hadn't decided how much to change out. I know that I am changing to thermostatic valves and moving them a bit. I also may change to a single 3/4 valve and running 3 fixtures off of that.

Anyway - I could just change out the minimum of lines to pex with the PB to Pex fittings. I hate that this will add more fittings to the plumbing. I could redo that region of the house to all pex. The HW heater is about 15 feet away and also has to go up about 6 feet to get to the bathroom. I would be able to shorten the HW line to the shower by about 10 feet if I redo it - not sure how much that matters since I am planning on a switched recirc system - but it would limit the pump drive time a bit as well as the lost heat.

It looks like I could redo the bathroom only with about $100 of pipes and fittings. The bathroom has 2 seperate sinks (not next to each other) and my 1 reservation is that the cabinets are in (along with countertops) so I don't really have access to the wall where the sink fittings are. It does seem like I could pull out the PB and jam some pex through the holes but it might get tricky... I do have full access to the tub pipes (and I will lose that once the shower is in).

Thanks for any advice. I am torn between if it isn't broke - don't fix it and do it right the first time....


I am sure that some people will take exception to my response here but I am in agreement with you, IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
Your house was constructed in 1993, which was at the height of the Polybutylene controversy and you can rest assured that any reputable plumber or plumbing inspector working with PB pipe at the time was staying right on top of the problems.

The problems associated with PB pipe were not problems with the pipe itself, but rather it was problems with the fittings. In fact, although the UPC(Uniform Plumbing Code) has banned the use of PB pipe, the IRC(International Residential Code) still lists PB pipe as an approved material for both supply & distribution piping.

Principally there was two problems associated with PB failure. PB pipe was run in exactly the same manner as PEX however originally they used plastic crimp rings which had a tendency to blow out from water hammer or they were literally pulled out from thermal linear contraction of the pipe. They then changed to plastic fittings with copper crimp rings, however it was soon discovered that there was a problem with the plastic used to make the fittings. The sidewalls of the fittings were eroding through from the inside out as a result of the friction of the water, especially where the lines were improperly downsized and the velocity of flow exceeded the recommendations. (In almost all cases where we saw PB system failures we found elbows with holes often as large as 3/8" through the sidewall of a fitting.)

In fact, many of the code requirements for running PEX are principally based upon lessons learned from PB pipe.

Typically the problems with PB pipe began to show up about 3 to 5 years after the initial installation however your PB has now lasted 14 years without incident. Based upon that fact alone, i would assume that you have the upgraded 2nd generation fittings and your risk is minimal therefore it would be prudent to weigh the risk of liability against the cost in time, money and invasive installation techniques before we arbitrarily decide to change it out.

As you stated, your shower walls will be open so I would say by all means seize this opportunity to address that section. There is an easy method of changing out the lines to the lavatories if you so desire. Rather than tear out the PB then attempt to jam the PEX in, you can take a short nipple of copper and using the PEX crimp rings you can make a short Butt joint between the two pipes. You then have a helper carefully feed the PEX in as you pull the PB out and it will go through rather easily.

For the remaining pipe in the crawl space, even if it fails there is little to no risk of property damage so I would say you could disregard any further changes.

thumping or knocking pipes?

We have some noisy pipes in our house. We hear it/them when we turn off the water to one of the two showers or flush one of the two toilets. I think we sometimes hear them when we turn off the fausets at one of the bathroom sinks but now that I think about it, that could be my imagination. It sounds like a 'whomp-whomp-whomp-whomp-whomp...then it stops. Anyone understand my discription and have any idea what it might be? Is it a problem? We have been hearing it for a long time, years (?), but I think I am hearing it a lot more often now.


If the house was constructed prior to the early 80's it most likely has field manufactured water hammer arrestors. One of the drawbacks of field manufactured hammer arrestors is that they can become waterlogged over time.
The immediate solution is to turn the main water supply valve off and drain the house water system, then refill the water system. This will trap a new supply of air in the hammer arrestors and alleviate the problem.

Typically this needs to be done about once every two years.

or

Sounds like "water hammer" which is quite common. Also easy to remedy via adding an expansion tank (air cushion device) in the line. Where to place it depends on your plumbing scheme and ease of access but closer to main supply is usually best.

Proper Venting of Existing Toilet When Adding Sinks

An existing toilet is at the end of a 3" waist line, with a 2" vent (V) about 24" away from the toilet (T).
T______V_____...

Can I add a 3x3x2 wye (W) BETWEEN the toilet and it's vent for a 2" drain line for two new sinks with their own 1-1/2" vent? The sinks will end up about 6' away from the existing 2" vent so in theory may not need but will have their own 1-1/2" vent. Will this interfere with proper venting of the toilet??

T__W__V_____...


It will not interfere in any way, in fact it will improve the overall venting.

Culligan is the only local option. Yay/nay and lots of ???

We are building a new home with city water. I don't even know if what I want is possible/worthwhile. Our water is very hard and has high iron (I haven't had it tested as of yet but will before purchasing a unit).
I would prefer a whole house filtration system. I would like to be able to turn on the tap and drink the water. Does the type of system I want exist? If I buy a system to take care of the hard water/iron will it be drinkable?

We only have one local h2o treatment company, which is Culligan. Kinetco is available but the serviceman/office is 2 hours away. EWS system is 3 hours away with no systems in our town that I know of.

I have looked at each of their websites and if $ and location wasn't a issue, my top pick would be EWS. But I know nothing about water except that we have a Culligan water softener in our current house and they have been courteous and available when I have had a problem.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. I don't know how to proceed. Our builder thinks we should go down to Sears buy a softener and call it a day.


A water softener removes hardness and iron up to 5 ppm although most regular softeners can't handle that much iron. On city water you will not have near that much iron, so you wouldn't need an iron filter to remove it. Or did you mean some other type of filter?
Your city water is drinkable now, you may not like the taste but health wise there should not be a problem with it so what are you concerned about or wanting to filter out of it?

The three brands you mentioned are proprietary and expensive and you will have to be dependent on that local dealer for service and parts; regardless of the prices. There should be independent dealers in your area, they sell non proprietary industry standard usually no brand name equipment.

Or you can buy from an independent dealer online and install it yourself or hire a plumber to do it. If you go that route, I suggest you look at a correctly sized softener for your family size and water quality and the SFR your house requires, using a Clack WS-1 control valve.

As to a big box store brand, I strongly suggest not doing that. They last 2-5 years and the parts and service are pricey for what you get. And in many cases the constant service flow rating (SFR) is low because of the style of softener they sell; a cabinet model which limits the size of the resin tank which limits the volume of resin used which dictates the SFR of a softener.

Electric hot water heaer element buied in sediment?

We have an 80 gallon AO Smith electric HW heater of an unknown age (bought house 3 years ago). Probably at least 10-15 years old (label on it says "Conservationist"). Water source is a well.
We suddenly had no hot water. After removing element access panels, I see that the wire to the lower element has literally burned off of the thermostat block at the screw. Although the circuit breaker (30 amp) did not trip (nor did the reset button on the thermostat for the upper element), I see signs of high current draw: the plastic "cover" is melted; the insulation on the detached wire crumbles when touched or wire is bent; the wire itself is noticeably thinner in one spot.

I replaced this wire (thermostat block to element) with a fresh length of 12 AWG, cleaned up, and all seemed well (sort-of ;-) Two Days later the reset button on the upper element tripped, so I figured I would change the elements for 2 new ultra low density elements.

Drained tank. Upper element was bent and so encrusted that it was difficult to remove (had to chip sediment off it by "stabbing" at it through the hole with a screwdriver). Lower element VERY VERY hard to turn - a #3 Phillips screw driver through the element socket deflects in the effort to turn the element, and you can HEAR "shhhhhh" when it does turn just a bit.

I'm amazed, but I think the lower element is completely buried in sediment! An ohmmeter on the disconnected element measures 80 ohms. I think it should be about 15 ohms, like the new ones. No short to ground though, so I'm guessing that the problem is an intermittent short.

Concerned that I may snap off the element, I decided to leave it there (re-tightened) and replace just the upper element for now. I figured that even if I get the lower element out/off, I would not be able to remove all the built up sediment.

It appears to be working for now, but I figure I'm on borrowed time. So I'm planning to replace the unit with a new 50 gallon electric heater (our family of 4 really doesn't need 80 gallons!). Do I have any other options that make sense, or have I diagnosed this properly?

I'm assuming that if the previous owner had flushed sediment out of the system every two years or so, these problems could have been avoided. Is that right? (previous owner seems to have done very little in the way of regular maintenance to the house)

I'm also assuming that the change in tank size will mean that my existing pipes may not line up with the new unit's hookups, so there will be some fun there :-) Any other gottchas or issues I should be aware of?



Replace this thing and forget it. Do it now. Everything you've found is telling you it's toast. From your description, I'm surprised the tank hasn't yet fractured. If it's located in a place where leakage from it would not be able to drain away and would cause damage, you're very likely at extreme risk.
You can put a 30-micron sediment filter on main-supply from the well for general principals (easy and cheap) but be advised it probably won't save you from another replacement in ten years or so. What you've seen with this one is exactly what will happen to the next one also. That's just how it is at your location. Regular purging can delay the inevitable by a little bit but probably not a lot. If you can find one with a 15-year warranty, consider that.

Electric hot water tank performance, how to check?

We had a new 80 gallon electric water heater installed to replace our 50 gallon propane tank. The setting was initially around 120, but the water came out of the tap at 100, so over a few days we've turned it up to 140 and now get water at around 115 out of the tap.
I'd like to verify that this is really operating correctly and giving us the specified 78 gallons of hot water during the first hour....because I'm afraid it isn't. We won't often need 80 gallons of 120 degree water, but I'd like to know this unit can provide what I paid for. Can someone explain how to do that?


Put a 5gal bucket in the tub and run the water for 1 minute to determine the GPM flow rate. (Should be about 4gpm), then run the water and time how long it takes before the water is getting cold. Multiply the time by the gpm rate.

plumber says pipes need to be grounded

we recently had to replace our pipes in the front yard and were told at the time by the contractor that the cause for the pipes leaking was due to electrolysis. he then said we needed to ground our wires to prevent this from happening again in the future and this was something my husband should be able to do himself husband not sure how to do so i am looking for advice....


If you have more than 10 feet of metalic pipe in contact with eth earth you are required to use it as a grounding electrode under the NEC.
Using the pipe as part of the electrode system will have no effect on electrolysis.
Soil type (pH) is usually the cause of copper pipe damage.

Faucet Identification Assistance

I have a very leaky shower faucet I need to repair but it doesn't easily match up to the various descriptions I've seen online.
Old house (1917), old bathroom (4" tiles), dual handled (hot/cold) faucets for the bath spigot. Pretty sure it's a compression type but the stem assembly is throwing me off. Removed the handle no problem; there's a bell-shaped cover that snugs up against the tile which I discovered spins off - it's threaded into a brass nut in the shower wall.

So now - there's no easy way to remove the stem and access the washer I figure needs replacing (and probably seat repair) and I'm left to guess that the nut needs to be unscrewed out of the wall to release the whole stem assembly.

Before I do that, though, I'd like to get feedback from anyone that recognizes this faucet description and any other advice they might be able to provide.


There are special sockets made for this purpose. They are deep and have a large open end that the stem can stick through. The outside of the socket is square or octagon and it is turned with a wrench once in place.
Should be able to get this type of socket at a place like HD. They aren't expensive because they are normally cheap metal rather than a cast metal.

can a water heater leak intermittently?

my sister came home to her house with the basement floors soaking wet(steady rain outside). The laundry room (no carpets) containing the furnace and gas water heater was all wet and the finished part of the basement (carpets) was wet in a pattern which seemed to center opposite to where the gas water heater is located but no way to tell 100%. We felt the carpets all around the exterior walls and nowhere was it wet anywhere within 5 feet. No leaking copper, no backed up drains, sump pump working fine so my best deduction was the gas water heater. However we dried the floor next to the gas water heater but 6 hours later not a drop has come out.

This happened a few weeks ago to a much smaller extent (when it was not raining) so my question is can a water heater somehow leak and then not leak?


Natural gas when burned gives off twice as much water vapor as it does carbon dioxide. Those are the main byproducts of combustion of natural gas, theoretically the only ones under perfect conditions. If the heater is set to a low temperature and the use of hot water is heavy or prolonged, the cold incoming water can chill the tank resulting in condensation of the water vapor in the flue gases. That could be interpreted as an intermittent leak. The cures might include increasing the temperature of the heater, being more conservative in the use of hot water (shorter showers?), or replacing with a larger heater. This condition would not happen with an electric heater.

Hot water tank, water gets cold quick, double t-stat

My hot water tank hot water doesnt last as long as it use to. I drained the tank down to see if anything was sitting on the bottom of it, and everything seems ok. A little bit of stuff came out of it that looked like sand, it wasnt very much at all. After it was drained I shook the water tank a it felt empty, and also light. I noticed that it has two thermostats on it, is it possible that one of the elements went bad and one heater cant keep up. If that was the case though I am guessing that the water temp would suffer as well. Not the case as the water is hot just like always, just the length of time the water stays hot has suffered. The water tank is about 10 years old. Any ideas?


Most likely the bottom element is not heating. Or the dip tube could have failed.